Who Gave the Bot Your Password | Newsday with 229Project

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Who Gave the Bot Your Password

[00:00:00] Bill: What's the average CIO total comp?

[00:00:04] Drex: Wow, the average.

[00:00:10] Drex: $400,000. I think that's high. $250,000.

[00:00:15] Bill: You'd be pretty you'd be pretty good on the prices right. It's 460. Oh, wow. Roughly four four sixty, four sixty five total comp. One of the things is at the larger health systems, a significant portion of it is at risk.

[00:00:30] Bill: Alright, it's Newsday, and it's Drex and I again today. Drex to Ford, Bill Russell.

[00:00:35] Drex: How's it going?

[00:00:35] Bill: Sarah Richardson is, on a plane. She's flying to, where's she flying to? She's flying to Tampa. She's gonna meet me tomorrow in Tampa for a regional staff roundtable.

[00:00:46] Drex: And then we're going to Waco County.

[00:00:48] Bill: Lake Oconee, we have a CISO event, a CTO event and a CIO event.

[00:00:54] Drex: Yeah.

[00:00:55] Bill: So should be an interesting week. We will be loaded with things to talk about for next week for sure. The. But gosh, there's a fair amount going on. I'm looking at some of the stories here that we are going to talk about on Newsday, which is right now. So, let's see, CIO Chris Carmody.

[00:01:17] Bill: for UPMC says the Western PA cutover, 15 hospitals, went live on October 3rd. It's still settling in. Patients report my UPMC login failures, missing records, and longer waits. Some say data older than 5 years is gone from the portal, and you know what?

[00:01:36] Bill: I when when I did our we we consolidated our EHRs and we went live. I I did our customer satisfaction survey two weeks after our cutover.

[00:01:51] Drex: Oh, good plan.

[00:01:52] Bill: Yeah, because it can only go up from there.

[00:01:54] Drex: Because you've.

[00:01:55] Bill: You've just moved everybody's cheese. Right? So you know it's gonna be bad. You might as well just take your lumps. Everybody's upset anyway. Get that as the baseline. And sure enough, we did that as the baseline, and it did nothing but go up after that. I was like, yeah. That's it's it's these things are hard.

[00:02:14] Drex: I mean, anytime you go live, anytime you make that transition from one EHR to another, there's… it's a bumpy ride, because you never get it perfect, and like you said, you've moved everyone's cheese, including the patients, and…

[00:02:28] Drex: look, there's stuff you have to go back and figure out. It's not the… mistakes that you make, or the misunderstandings, training, other things maybe you haven't done.

[00:02:40] Drex: completely super well, or it wasn't absorbed well, or it's how do you recover from that? How do you do the service recovery? And if you do that really well, most people will, you know, forgive and forget, and just keep right on moving on. That's why the score goes up over time.

[00:02:54] Bill: You know what I find is that,

[00:02:56] Bill: IT leaders from outside of healthcare just don't get it. I was one of those people. I came in, I'm like, why can't you guys get this interoperability thing working? It's not that hard, you just set up these pipes and away you go. And then you realize the complexity that has been layered upon layered upon layered in healthcare just over the years, and the pay… the payment models are different, how doctors get compensated is different. There's just a whole host of things that are just

[00:03:21] Bill: It's goofy about it. That's on the interoperability side. But I don't think IT people from outside understand how complex it is to do an EHR. cutover, and I'm not sure there's anything comparable outside of healthcare. It is…

[00:03:35] Bill: it is distinctly unique, and the reason I say that is, we decided, and UPMC did the same thing, they broke it down, and they said, we're gonna have, you know, 2 or 3 go-lives. We did 3 go-lives, and the first one was a little bumpy, and we thought, well, the second one will get better. Well, the second one was bumpy, too.

[00:03:52] Bill: And then we did the third one. We're like, well, we've learned everything from the first two, and the third one was bumpy. And and if somebody were to ask me why did that happen, it's because it was three different groups we were dealing with.

[00:04:03] Drex: And.

[00:04:04] Bill: It's 3 different hospitals, 3 different leadership teams, 3 different regions. You know, different scale in each. They were all a little different. The, you know, first one was the smallest from a number of patients and those kinds of things. They all had different third-party systems they were connecting into.

[00:04:23] Drex: I mean.

[00:04:23] Bill: Each one was its own distinct project. And yes, the things we messed up on the first one, we didn't mess up on the second one. There was just a whole host of new things to mess up on.

[00:04:34] Drex: I think as much as you try as a health system to make every hospital look exactly like every other hospital and have standard work and all the all the clinical standard operations across one hospital to the next hospital, there's still some variation, and this variation winds up showing up in things like.

[00:04:52] Drex: new system implementations or go-lives. There's… oh, I didn't realize that we did that there. We didn't do that at you know, St. Elizabeth. So, okay, we're gonna have to… we're gonna have to adjust fire for that, so it's, it is funny. We think we have… we think we have systems, but in fact, they're… they're still… The variation that gets you.

[00:05:52] Bill: Yeah. Let me let me give you this story because I think this one's interesting for us. 14 health systems where IT isn't led by a CIO.

[00:06:00] Drex: Yeah.

[00:06:00] Bill: Okay, at a number of health systems, the executive in charge of IT no longer carries a CIO title. Some of the organizations have elevated their CIO into a broader digital and technology role, or split the job between two leaders. The most common titles are Chief Technology Officer, Chief Digital Officer, and often data, AI, cybersecurity folded into the same portfolio, and I think it depends on the size.

[00:06:22] Bill: You have Dallas Dallas based Children's Health hired David Seo, doctor David Seo as chief technology officer. CIO reports into him. Let's see… City of Hope, Executive Vice President, Chief Digital and Technology Officer, CIO reports to that person.

[00:06:44] Bill: Jeff Ferranti at Duke was formerly the CIO, now serves as executive vice president, chief digital AI and transformation officer. So, a little different role. Yeah, I mean, all of them are… I mean, they're similar and a little different. You have, Fairview, Minneapolis-based Fairview.

[00:07:03] Bill: The person in the the the role is vice president and chief digital AI, oversees IT and cybersecurity along with AI data analytics and informatics. That's probably just a a budget thing, I would think.

[00:07:20] Drex: Oh, a catch-all that's, that's kind of been created. It is interesting, I'm looking at the same story. Read it this morning when it kind of came over. It's.

[00:07:32] Drex: If you think about, we've talked about this before, in manufacturing, very often, there are two really distinct roles in a… not healthcare, but other business lines, right? Especially folks who are in manufacturing. There's a chief technology officer, and there's a CIO. The CIO is the person who's responsible for keeping all the systems running. That keep the business running.

[00:07:54] Drex: And the CTO is responsible for the innovation and creation and management of the product that the company is selling.

[00:08:05] Drex: And so, if you take that into healthcare, there's some version of this that is, like, we used to have those roles kind of reversed, right? The CIO was the person who was thinking about strategy, and the CTO was keeping the trains running, and I think if you use the manufacturing model, those titles just kind of flip. And if you think about the product that we're delivering being

[00:08:27] Drex: Patient… the whole patient interface, and how that works, both digital and you know everything or surrounding it, then making that person the Cto. probably makes sense. I think in some cases they call it the Chief Digital Officer or the Chief Digital and Information Officer. So these titles are, I think we continue to sort of refer to that role as the CIO.

[00:08:50] Drex: I think the market is kind of… Spun it in a lot of directions.

[00:08:54] Bill: I wrote an article about 10 years ago, where I said, you know, the CIO role is basically three things. One is keep the trains running on time, second is lay new track, and the third is build airplanes, to just give it the idea of, it's not even a train, it's not even on the track. So that's the innovation side. Then the other is the traditional. It's like, hey, keep everything running, make sure your data center runs, make sure your security's right, and oh, by the way.

[00:09:18] Bill: There's gonna be incremental, like, hey. you know, roll out this new thing for this new EPIC module, roll out this new imaging thing, that kind of stuff. That's the traditional CIO role. The question is, can you do both effectively? Can you do the traditional CIO role and build airplanes? Because

[00:09:36] Bill: The people who build airplanes, the organizations who have decided, you know what, we want to be innovative, we want to make sure that we're utilizing AI at the edge of the curve to really change how we fill in the blank, you know, bend the cost curve, how we engage our patients, how we deliver higher, higher quality, whatever it happens to be, what they're making a bet on is the fact that this is a full-time job and then some.

[00:10:00] Bill: this keep the trains running, and the traditional CIO job is a full-time job. And you want somebody who's… you know, maybe a little bit more engrossed in the Silicon Valley, what's coming next, and that kind of stuff. With that being said, I've heard the argument from the other side, which is, you know, when these two operate separate. you end up with separate.

[00:10:23] Drex: I think there has to be a VIN diagram, though, right? I mean, the other problem is with the… keep the trains running. CIO… also trying to be the Build the Planes CIO, you come in with a lot of preconceived notions that put the brakes on what it is you want to even try to do.

[00:10:46] Drex: to build airplanes, because essentially, what you're asking that person to do is admit that all the things that they've built and all the things that they're running need to be disrupted and thrown away, and that you've got to try something completely different. And it's hard, like, emotionally you get involved with these projects, it took 2 years to roll this out, we got this thing up and running, we did the CHR,

[00:11:08] Drex: transition, all these things are like, I'm very emotionally involved. This is what good looks like. I've worked really hard to optimize these trains and make them run the way that they do, and you're asking me to also take on this job where my job is to knock all the trains off the track and build runways, and it's…

[00:11:25] Drex: Yeah, I think it's super hard to do, but when you have two people with different jobs that have a good VIN diagram, they can actually sort of check each other all the time. This used to be my…

[00:11:36] Drex: you know, my CTO, you know, Wes Wright, who's with me, two or three different jobs, and he was always very good, and I, you know, we had a knock-down, drag-out fight kind of relationship a lot of the time, but we were able to get there, and you need that kind of a relationship with somebody if you're going to be successful, I think.

[00:12:35] Bill: Yeah, no, I think that's really true. The hardest thing for anyone to do is to reinvent themselves, is to disrupt themselves. Yeah. Right.

[00:12:47] Drex: There's a great book by Jay Samet called Disrupt You, and it's one of my favorite books, and it's just about this whole problem of you sink anchors into the ground, and this is who you are, and you have to… if you're going to grow, you have to rip those anchors out. It's a super painful process.

[00:13:06] Bill: I said that in one of our CIO summits. I said, you know, my… when I coach CIOs, I'll say, every 5 years, you have to, you have to… reinvent yourself and whatever. I said, if nothing else, to have energy.

[00:13:24] Bill: Because one of the things that happens is people sit in the chair for 3, 4, 5, 6 years, and people are like, the IT organization hasn't done anything in 6 years. Well, when they did do something, it's when you…

[00:13:37] Bill: went in there as sort of the turnaround person or the new person, and you said, well, I have a mandate, I'm going to do these things. Well, it turns out that the lifespan of that is probably 3 or 4 years, and when you get to the end of that, you should be saying, hey. for the next 4 years, we're gonna focus on what we're gonna do, we're gonna, you know, expand, whatever… whatever happens to do. And what we do as…

[00:14:00] Bill: CIOs traditionally has been to outsource that direction. And we do it two ways. One is we say, well, the organization sets the strategy, we just respond to it. That's fine.

[00:14:15] Drex: But.

[00:14:15] Bill: But there's so many technology things today that really are. impacting at a very, very.

[00:14:24] Bill: material way how we are going to deliver healthcare in the future, and to that extent, the CIO needs to be a very loud voice at that table. Not necessarily saying, hey, this is our strategy, but saying, look, with these technologies and these things, this is what.

[00:14:41] Drex: you can do. You should try this. Let me give you another idea that is different from the thing that you're thinking of, because those executives need to be disrupted, too.

[00:14:51] Bill: Yes.

[00:14:51] Drex: They think they know what good looks like. But the best version of this is the constant argument that isn't personal, but, like, it's just about trying to make things.

[00:15:02] Bill: So so they so they outsource to the leadership and say they set the direction and whatever. I'll tell you the second one has irked me for a long time, and it is we outsource it to Epic.

[00:15:12] Drex: Yes.

[00:15:13] Bill: Epic is our innovation art. Like, we don't have to think about it, they're gonna do it. And I'm like, that's the worst.

[00:15:19] Drex: about this. That drives me crazy.

[00:15:21] Bill: All the respect in the world for Epic and what they do. But if you're gonna outsource to Epic, then I can hire anybody. Like what?

[00:15:27] Drex: Then I just need a trains running person, right? What do I need? What do I really need that, that, you know.

[00:15:34] Bill: Because all I'm all all all you are is you're you're a person with a checkbook who can run projects. Well, okay. I can now promote any number of project managers at about a 200, $250,000 a year salary who can keep the trains running and buy the next thing that Epic rolls out.

[00:15:51] Drex: Yeah.

[00:16:26] Drex: The other thing, and you see this also with companies, not healthcare companies, but other companies, too. Companies who get a product, and it runs really well, and they turn it into a cash cow. There's a lot of documentation, there's a lot of books that have been written about this, and it's hard for them to change that company.

[00:16:44] Drex: into something that is going to be the new company for the future, because it means dismantling the thing that makes a lot of money right now. And so.

[00:16:54] Drex: it's also the individual, it's also the person, right? Like, I know I have been in an organization, I came in as a turnaround guy, did the turnaround 4 years in, found myself kind of throwing wild pitches just to make something interesting happen, and realized at that point. I'm going to get bored here if I don't, you know, come up with another plan, and the plan was for me. I had to move someplace else.

[00:17:19] Bill: Yeah. Well, you know, again, around this whole concept here, one of the things I did. It's probably… probably not, I'm always looking for ways to test out these AI models, right?

[00:17:35] Drex: I.

[00:17:35] Bill: I.

[00:17:36] Drex: I read your posts. I read your newsletters.

[00:17:39] Bill: So I'm playing around with Grokbot. And I… so you read the one about changing my seat and that kind of stuff.

[00:17:45] Drex: Yeah, I need to know.

[00:17:47] Bill: That is that is really powerful. I was like, man, that is so cool. But here's the other one. I was sitting there going, you know. One of the things that every CIO wants to know, I mean, they're not gonna say it, but they all want to know is, like, how do I compare to the other CIOs? And one of the ways they do that is, what's my compensation? And, you know, some of that stuff is public. It's in the nine nineties that are out there.

[00:18:10] Bill: But it used to be really hard to go collect that information and see, oh, Drex DeFord at Seattle Children's made this amount of money, da da da. Yeah. So I was like, all right, Grokbot, you you know, you say you're really powerful.

[00:18:22] Drex: So you sicked it on the 990 database.

[00:18:24] Bill: I did. I I've I created Grokbot and I gave it instructions. I said, hey, there's 990s out here. Go find the tech leader compensation. across the board, and it made this spreadsheet, and it collected… it went and looked at every 990. And by the way, the 990s don't include the public companies, it only includes the not-for-profits, and the not-for-profits

[00:18:49] Bill: Have to report key, key employees and salaries and that and total compensation.

[00:18:55] Drex: Yeah.

[00:18:55] Bill: Yeah, and that kind of stuff. And so, it was, it was interesting to me to. To do this, and to set it loose, I'm trying to download this right now, but anyway.

[00:19:07] Drex: I was there, I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, what are you doing? Are you gonna show the spreadsheet?

[00:19:10] Bill: I said, no, I'm not gonna show it.

[00:19:12] Drex: you.

[00:19:12] Bill: But it went out and it got 1,700 data points. And I said, first I said CIO, and it said, hey, by the way, there's some CMIOs out here, there's some CTOs out here, there's some others. I said, great.

[00:19:26] Drex: Bunch of titles in.

[00:19:27] Bill: Yeah, I'm like, go ahead, you know, pull everything you can, and so it did, and as it, as it pulled up, it gave me, like. I said, well, now give me the averages and all this other stuff that goes on.

[00:19:44] Bill: I had to give me the top 25, what the comp is. But what do you think the average, average, like from making the largest health system to the smallest health system, what's the average CIO total comp?

[00:19:58] Drex: Wow, the average.

[00:20:05] Drex: $400,000. I think that's high. $250,000.

[00:20:10] Bill: You'd be pretty you'd be pretty good on the prices right. It's 460. Oh, wow. Roughly four four sixty, four sixty five total comp. One of the things is at the larger health systems, a significant portion of it is at risk.

[00:20:27] Bill: Right? So it's it's it's it's variable comp. And so the ones who are making the most money, you look at the bonuses and you're like, oh my gosh, man. That's a that's a hefty bonus.

[00:20:38] Bill: And it's it's based on deliverables, it's probably based on the overall performance of the organization plus individual things that are going on there. But that that 465,000 total comp for CIO struck me as an interesting number. By the way, of the CISOs who were listed, CISOs were roughly half that.

[00:20:57] Bill: So whatever this and and it it it went to a certain point, it went where it's, like, roughly half of what a CIO makes is what a CISO is at. Do you think that does that feel right to you, or does it feel a little high?

[00:21:11] Drex: I think… so, I mean, it's… so this is all part of the really interesting, how do you define the jobs, and who's doing what job? Because you probably have CTOs in there who actually also have the CISO roles, and CIOs who have the CISO role, too. So.

[00:21:27] Drex: I'm not surprised, although I definitely have had conversations with CIOs who have told me that they've had to go hire CIOs and pay them more than they're being paid in certain markets. So. There's a upside to that, too, in some places.

[00:21:46] Bill: Yeah, it's just… it's interesting to play with these bots and see what they're doing. I'll give you the.

[00:21:53] Drex: I mean, that's hard to do, to go take all those 990s and take them apart and strip out all that information. I mean, I just think about manually the times I've been out there to look at something. That's really interesting.

[00:22:05] Bill: It is it is really interesting. And then I have the highest paid CIO, low lows, and just a bunch of that stuff. How much is that?

[00:22:12] Drex: Highest paid CIO paid.

[00:22:16] Bill: It's really hard… Because… 85% of the comp was other. And I think it's because the structure is that that person is participating in some of the startups that.

[00:22:32] Drex: Got it.

[00:22:33] Bill: the health system, and there was some sort of payout as a result of one of the startups going public. So that one feels like an outlier. But the largest, large, large, largest 3 to 4 million.

[00:22:46] Drex: Hmm.

[00:22:48] Bill: Seems about… seems about, where it's at, and it depends on, again, a large part of that is tied to, you know, how have they done, and that kind of stuff, so it's a lot of variable comp. Let me ask you this, this one last, so…

[00:23:05] Bill: This is one of the things I came up with over the weekend. I'm curious from a security standpoint. So I'm playing with Grokbot, and I wrote on Saturday that I put Grokbot to work logging into Delta and moving my seat up. And it did. It moved me all the way up to 10F. Great.

[00:23:21] Bill: But in order to do that, I had to… Grokbot runs in the cloud, and it has its own computer, right? So its own computer has 160, I think, 160 gig hard drive, you know, 6 processors, and does that whole thing. It actually logs in using Chrome.

[00:23:41] Bill: a Chrome browser on that PC. So it got over there and said, well, why don't you log in? I will not keep your… or actually, it had me sign up for 1Password, and I put my credentials in 1Password. So when it goes to log into Delta, it hits 1Password, it puts it in.

[00:24:00] Drex: So it's logging in as you.

[00:24:02] Bill: But it is. It's logging in as me. This is where I'm getting to. All right, so it's logging in as me.

[00:24:08] Drex: Yeah.

[00:24:09] Bill: My question becomes. the systems on the other side are not going to be able to distinguish between a Chrome browser from that, or my Chrome browser from this laptop, or this PC I'm sitting here at, because… or my mobile phone, and I'm sitting there going, okay. All well and good. Let's just take the easiest, and the easiest is…

[00:24:32] Bill: Within our company, we have a CRM and some other solutions. You and I are going to start using bots. I how am I supposed to determine whether it's your bot logging in or it's you logging in? Because really what I want to do is I want to give the bot different as an organization.

[00:24:49] Drex: Yeah.

[00:24:50] Bill: I want to give the bot different.

[00:24:51] Drex: Permissions.

[00:24:52] Bill: Permissions and controls that I give you. I'm like, I don't care if Drex gets in and does something, but I also want to log Drex did this.

[00:24:59] Drex: I.

[00:25:00] Bill: So, I can give you Drex's bot at… our URL, or I can give you Drex to Ford at our URL, and you can log in as both. If I could… if I could… my problem is, I can set that up

[00:25:17] Bill: But I have no way of knowing if you gave the bot your password and it's actually logged in as you.

[00:25:23] Drex: Yeah, yeah, I mean, this is a, so if you, and I'm, I'm sure you didn't, and you just haven't gotten around to it yet. Two-Minute Drill X-ray yesterday, there are stories in there where we talk about this, people saying specifically, and it's one of those things I've talked about in the past.

[00:25:39] Drex: Bots need to have their own identity, the humans need to have their own identity. This is the job that has not been created yet, the Vice President for Non-Human Resources, meaning those AI bots, those AI…

[00:25:53] Drex: non-human actors need their own identities, they need their own permissions, they need to be onboarded in a certain way, trained a certain way, given all the culture of the organization, and at some point they need to be fired and disengaged. So you have to track them like it's an HR system.

[00:26:10] Bill: And I'm a thousand percent on board with you. That's what we're gonna do. Okay. But now, I don't… I don't know if you've set your bot up correctly to go through the agent, or if you're letting it use your password to get in as you. Yeah. And I… so I started going through it, I'm like, alright, well.

[00:26:30] Bill: Maybe I can tell by the type of browser. No. Maybe I can tell by the IP address. No. Maybe I can tell by… I couldn't come up with enough enough stuff that distinguishes this came from Grokbot or this came from Drex to Ford.

[00:26:43] Drex: And this is one of those weird things, like, you know, are systems really prepared for this evolution, too? You could… let's take the bots out of it. Let's say you had an assistant, a human. assistant who would have been the person who would have logged into your Delta account and tried to.

[00:27:04] Drex: get your seat upgraded. Now, you could have shared your password, that's bad, don't do that. Or, somehow you could have created a proxy inside of the Delta system that says my assistant can do all the things that I can do in my account, so they can upgrade my seat, they can buy tickets for me, they can do all those kinds of things.

[00:27:23] Drex: We're going to have to create that kind of mechanism in systems that may not have those capabilities today. We just haven't built that capability yet in a lot of places.

[00:27:34] Bill: I'm I'm more worried about the right access. So I think what I'm gonna do is with your login. I mean, I don't… it's hard.

[00:27:43] Drex: My login.

[00:27:44] Bill: No, I mean, with a human's log.

[00:27:46] Drex: AI, yeah.

[00:27:47] Bill: I think the first thing I'm gonna have to do is is a whole bunch of metadata that says, this was written by a human. This was written by Drex. This was based on this login, that kind of stuff. And then it might be just an education thing where I say, look.

[00:28:02] Bill: People, you have two logins. You have login for your agent, login for you. And we do not want you to give your credentials to the bot. And if you do, that is grounds for warning and an eventual termination.

[00:28:19] Drex: Expect that that, you know, look, it… we can't tell in the logs, then. I can't tell if you're the person who downloaded a bunch of stuff and sent it to somebody else, or was that the bot trying really hard to be helpful?

[00:28:31] Drex: But using your credentials, it downloaded a bunch of stuff and sent it, you know, via email. Like, I can't tell in the logs. It looks like you was using your credential. And so those are the… that's the stuff that a lot of people are stuck on right now.

[00:28:47] Bill: Gosh, this is gonna be so much fun over the next year.

[00:28:50] Drex: I.

[00:28:51] Bill: I can't even imagine. It'll be the.

[00:28:53] Drex: The Saturday, the Saturday episodes, the Saturday articles that keep on giving.

[00:29:00] Bill: I'll tell you what, though. I mean, so I finally got some time after being sick to play with Grokbot. I'm like, this is interesting. But it's not the first. You got Muse, and people are going crazy about Muse. Now, I would never allow anyone to use Muse.

[00:29:12] Drex: I'm super concerned about Muse. Muse is also one of those things where they've created these cute little fuzzy, it's okay, I'm super friendly, you should give me your bank account information, and people are doing it, because they don't know any better, right? They've not been educated on, like, oh, there's a lot of potential downside here.

[00:29:31] Drex: So Muse concerns me a lot because they've made it 2 to AI bot for dummies friendly.

[00:29:41] Bill: Well, look. Yeah. At the end of the day, it's Zuckerberg. So he's stealing my information and doing all sorts of stuff just by it's guilt by association. And you'll love this one because you're not a fan, but Elon did the stupidest thing over the weekend. Did you see this?

[00:29:59] Drex: Which one?

[00:30:00] Bill: He took a picture of a credit card, gave it to Grokbot to do some… some, purchases and that kind of stuff. I'm like. I can't think of a worse… well, I can think of worse.

[00:30:12] Bill: But it's bad. Like, take just take a picture and give it to your your agent and say, here, here's my credit card information. Go, you know, go try to buy Christmas gifts for whatever. Try to be super helpful.

[00:30:26] Drex: Just sharing that picture all over the place, social media, hey, I'm trying to buy this thing, does anybody have the credit card I want to use?

[00:30:32] Bill: He he shared it, and people were immediately going, what are you, an idiot? What are you doing? It's like, no. He's he's just actually, it's the same thing that's gonna happen to all of us. It's like it's a convenience thing. It's like, man, I'm moving too fast. I have too much stuff going on. Man, do I really have to type this in? This is crazy. I'm just gonna take a picture and give it to it. And you think, okay. Think nothing of it. And by the way, you and I will think something of it.

[00:30:56] Bill: What percentage of our employees are going to think so?

[00:30:58] Drex: No, I know, I know, yeah. It's… it is the constant pressure that we've been under for the last several years. What do I trade my privacy for convenience? Well, you know, what do I give up? Like, odds are really long, it's gonna be a problem for me to take a picture of this and send it to my bot. But, it might really be a problem, so…

[00:31:20] Bill: It might be a problem, and… you know, the number of people I… I'll say, well, hey, did you read what the… are you training the bot with your information, or are you not training it? Like, did you read that whole thing? And they're like, no, no one reads those things. I'm like.

[00:31:34] Drex: Oh, the terms of service?

[00:31:36] Bill: service.

[00:31:36] Drex: 25,000 pages that are.

[00:31:38] Bill: You, you, you may want to know, And, you know, two weeks ago, or last week, I wrote the article. I'm working with a law firm to set up their stuff. One of the first things I did is just research. Because somebody said to me, hey, if you put any information into an AI agent, you violate attorney-client privilege.

[00:31:59] Bill: And they just said that. And, you know, people think they know something, and so he said that. And the more research I did, and I had the law firm work with me on it, it's like, that is not true. Like, there are… I mean, there's things you have to do, like, you cannot do that with a commercial… personal, agent, that would be bad. But you can do it with a… if you get a corporate…

[00:32:23] Drex: Firms contracted, yeah.

[00:32:26] Bill: Yeah, and so I was like… Yeah. So everybody everybody thinks they're an expert. You just have to you have to you have to dive into it.

[00:32:34] Drex: There was a, a really funny, I don't know if you've ever seen like the Saturday Night Live skit where the guy scores a touchdown and then he puts his hands behind his head and he does like the 3 pump rule and the ref.

[00:32:46] Drex: waits for him for the third pump, and then he throws the flag. Well, this happened in the NFL a couple of weeks ago, where the guy went in, he did one pump, and the ref threw the flag on him, like, you know, a personal foul, like.

[00:33:00] Drex: don't be so vulgar, or whatever. And the guy was like, but I thought there was a 3-pump rule, and it was like, no, that's a whole thing that Saturday Night Live just made up as a skit. That's not actually an NFL rule. But to your point, right, people see things, or they read things, and they go, well, that must be… that must be how it is, and it's not.

[00:33:18] Bill: Oh man. Well, I'm looking forward to Sarah coming back. She will be loaded, I think, the next time we get in front of her. She's.

[00:33:26] Drex: Between all the regional staff roundtables and the… and then we're doing Lake Oconee, and then the following week. Sarah and I are in Kansas City and LA for regional staff roundtables, so…

[00:33:38] Bill: Right. Tons of meetings.

[00:33:40] Drex: sites.

[00:33:41] Bill: And then the week after that, I'm up in Boston and down to Charlottesville, and that's it. That's the last.

[00:33:47] Drex: No. That's the cost.

[00:33:48] Bill: the.

[00:33:49] Drex: the.

[00:33:49] Bill: For the year, right?

[00:33:51] Drex: Yeah, I think it is.

[00:33:52] Bill: Oh, no, no, it's not. I've, in December, I'm going up to New York for, one dinner.

[00:33:58] Drex: A dinner. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So almost done. Almost done.

[00:34:02] Bill: But that's… that's cheating. It's gonna… it'll show up as a travel day, but I'm taking my wife, we're gonna go do the Christmas stuff. New York! Yeah, awesome. That's exactly what we're gonna do. Oh, man, Drex, always great to catch up with you, and look forward to seeing you this week.

[00:34:17] Drex: Hang in there, I'll see you soon.