CHIME Fall Forum 21 – Chero Goswami, CIO of UW (Wisconsin) Health

Bill Russell 00:00:03 Today in health, it interviews from the chime Bill Russell 00:00:05 conference in San Diego. Bill Russell 00:00:07 My name is bill Russell. Bill Russell 00:00:08 I'm a former CIO for a 16 hospital system and creator of this week in health. Bill Russell 00:00:11 It a channel dedicated to keeping health it staff current and engaged. Bill Russell 00:00:16 Just a quick reminder. Bill Russell 00:00:17 I wouldn't be dropping interviews over the next couple of days and into Bill Russell 00:00:20 next week from the chime conference. Bill Russell 00:00:23 And then I'm going to have some more interviews from the next conference I Bill Russell 00:00:27 want to be going to, and then eventually I'll get back to Florida and to the studio Bill Russell 00:00:32 where we'll start looking at the news. Bill Russell 00:00:33 Once again. Bill Russell 00:00:34 Hope you enjoy this interview. Bill Russell 00:00:36 All right. Bill Russell 00:00:36 Another interview from the floor of China, we have chiro Goswami CIO Bill Russell 00:00:41 for university of Wisconsin health. Bill Russell 00:00:43 You're at Madison. Bill Russell 00:00:44 That's right, Sarah. Bill Russell 00:00:45 Wow. Bill Russell 00:00:46 Congratulations. Bill Russell 00:00:46 Well, we met each other. Bill Russell 00:00:47 You were at BJC. Bill Russell 00:00:48 That's right. Bill Russell 00:00:49 Gosh, I just had a Donald. Bill Russell 00:00:52 And I said, you know, we met at, at, uh, epi, just what were you doing Chero Goswami 00:00:55 at BJC? Chero Goswami 00:00:56 So it was one of the vice-presidents at BJC by last stint over there Chero Goswami 00:00:59 was leading the epic implementation and doing some strategic. Bill Russell 00:01:03 Yeah. Bill Russell 00:01:04 And she commented on how, uh, fun it is to have an epic implementation across two. Bill Russell 00:01:10 I mean, it's an academic medical center, but across to. Bill Russell 00:01:13 I forgot what you called Chero Goswami 00:01:14 it. Chero Goswami 00:01:14 It's two different legal entities who legal and different legal Chero Goswami 00:01:16 entities, the health system, and the university of Washington Chero Goswami 00:01:19 universities, the academic part, Bill Russell 00:01:20 and doing an EMR implementation is challenging Bill Russell 00:01:23 at an academic medical center. Bill Russell 00:01:24 But when you add even more complexity audit, I can only, Chero Goswami 00:01:27 I used to have hair as I joked before I did Bill Russell 00:01:29 that. Bill Russell 00:01:29 So, um, but, but you guys earned your stripes. Bill Russell 00:01:33 You, you, you know, and both of you have gone on to CIO. Bill Russell 00:01:36 So tell us about the journey I do. Bill Russell 00:01:39 How did you, uh, make that move? Bill Russell 00:01:41 How'd you make that. Chero Goswami 00:01:42 Well, first I'll say BJC is a great, great place to work. Chero Goswami 00:01:45 And working with Washington university learned a lot and it's Chero Goswami 00:01:48 like, they see it just by parents, raise your kids and then send them Chero Goswami 00:01:50 off to college for greater things. Chero Goswami 00:01:52 And that's how I feel. Chero Goswami 00:01:54 I gave them to a university of Wisconsin and Madison. Chero Goswami 00:01:57 So I got there January of 2020 right before COVID came in and thank goodness Chero Goswami 00:02:02 for some good coaches and mentors at BJC and other places, uh, putting Chero Goswami 00:02:06 all those learnings to use everyday Bill Russell 00:02:09 while. Bill Russell 00:02:09 So you came in. Bill Russell 00:02:11 So. Chero Goswami 00:02:12 Post pandemic. Chero Goswami 00:02:13 So technically I started gen six, which is the first day that the Chero Goswami 00:02:16 first case of, uh, COVID actually happened in the United States. Chero Goswami 00:02:20 So Madison Gossett's first case with the end of February. Bill Russell 00:02:24 So how do you come up to speed? Bill Russell 00:02:26 I mean, you come in, it's like, Hey, welcome. Bill Russell 00:02:29 We appreciate you coming in here. Bill Russell 00:02:31 And oh, by the way, we need to prepare for this. Bill Russell 00:02:34 And then like, I assume like a month or two later, it's like, Bill Russell 00:02:37 Hey, everybody's going home. Bill Russell 00:02:38 We need to do all these things. Bill Russell 00:02:39 I mean, you don't have. Bill Russell 00:02:42 Background, you really have to Chero Goswami 00:02:43 rely on your people. Chero Goswami 00:02:44 I would imagine. Chero Goswami 00:02:44 So bill, you and I have worked before, so, you know, my style, Chero Goswami 00:02:47 you know, it's a good thing. Chero Goswami 00:02:48 Every, every challenge is an opportunity. Chero Goswami 00:02:50 So when it came to the pandemic, there was no textbook written. Chero Goswami 00:02:53 So nobody could tell you there's a different way of doing these things. Chero Goswami 00:02:56 So it's actually worked out to be a blessing because as we all know, Chero Goswami 00:03:00 healthcare is resistant to change. Chero Goswami 00:03:02 So pandemic presented that opportunity where we could just try new things, uh, Chero Goswami 00:03:07 without the fear of failure, knowing that the alternative was always worse. Chero Goswami 00:03:11 The organization welcomed me the thoughts. Chero Goswami 00:03:13 I had a great, still have a great team to work with. Chero Goswami 00:03:15 So it turned out to be a very good opportunity to drive value Chero Goswami 00:03:21 enablement and innovation into that Bill Russell 00:03:23 culture. Bill Russell 00:03:24 You know, when, when I, I always ask CIO is what was your a hundred day plan? Bill Russell 00:03:28 And that kind of stuff. Bill Russell 00:03:29 When we do the longer form interviews and they share them, and a lot Bill Russell 00:03:32 of them are, you know, I try to meet and talk to everybody on my. Bill Russell 00:03:37 Were you able to do that? Bill Russell 00:03:37 Were you able to make those kinds of connections? Bill Russell 00:03:39 So, Chero Goswami 00:03:39 no. Chero Goswami 00:03:40 No. Chero Goswami 00:03:40 I mean, that's one thing I say COVID told for me because I'm a Chero Goswami 00:03:43 very relationship based person and I call them meet and greets. Chero Goswami 00:03:47 And, uh, it's funny because even now I show appointments on my calendar, it Chero Goswami 00:03:50 says meet and greet revision, number 17, like, you know, or something like that. Chero Goswami 00:03:55 The good thing though is, um, we were still meeting, uh, in Chero Goswami 00:03:58 the first six or eight weeks. Chero Goswami 00:04:00 So I got some time to set those relationships, but over a period of time, Chero Goswami 00:04:04 Again, virtual meetings became efficient, uh, and more convenient in some ways. Bill Russell 00:04:09 So it's so you, it's interesting. Bill Russell 00:04:13 Cause you talked about the fact that, you know, the, the, the pandemic created Bill Russell 00:04:17 some interesting situations and for you, you never got used to working Bill Russell 00:04:21 in the office with all these people. Bill Russell 00:04:23 Not until I know there's a lot of CEOs are talking about the transition Bill Russell 00:04:26 and how it's been difficult. Bill Russell 00:04:27 Cause they, they had a one way of working and now they're doing another, Bill Russell 00:04:30 you came in and had to start with. Bill Russell 00:04:33 I mean, pretty Chero Goswami 00:04:33 much a new way of marketing, so very much. Chero Goswami 00:04:35 So we have a pretty big building in one of the suburbs of Madison Chero Goswami 00:04:38 Middleton where it seats about 450, uh, team members, uh, ISS about six 50. Chero Goswami 00:04:44 And I still go into work three or four days a week and meet a few people. Chero Goswami 00:04:48 But, uh, pretty much it was a ghost town. Chero Goswami 00:04:51 It was a ghost town. Chero Goswami 00:04:52 So Bill Russell 00:04:54 you're, you're in the shadow of, of epic. Bill Russell 00:04:57 I assume you have some former African people. Chero Goswami 00:04:59 We do have some former epic employees and epic in your w Chero Goswami 00:05:04 health have a long, long relationship. Chero Goswami 00:05:05 In many ways epic was installed at UWO health. Bill Russell 00:05:08 I, you know, there's part of me that wants to ask questions, but Bill Russell 00:05:11 I won't do that to you on the thing. Bill Russell 00:05:12 He's like, you know, do you ever like go over and just knock on Judy store Bill Russell 00:05:15 and say, Hey, can you come on over? Bill Russell 00:05:16 And, um, and I would imagine that has its pluses and minuses Bill Russell 00:05:19 being in their backyard. Chero Goswami 00:05:21 Absolutely. Chero Goswami 00:05:22 Well, I'll tell you one of the reasons I took the, I took the possession now over Chero Goswami 00:05:26 there, I talked to a few epic leaders before I took the position because it's Chero Goswami 00:05:29 also an opportunity to do some very innovative, uh, joint collaboration work. Chero Goswami 00:05:33 And so we are exploring and working on some of Bill Russell 00:05:35 those things. Bill Russell 00:05:36 Talk to me about an innovation. Bill Russell 00:05:37 So your chief information officer, um, how does your digital and innovation work at? Bill Russell 00:05:43 Okay. Chero Goswami 00:05:44 So again, if I don't think the world has defined a very. Chero Goswami 00:05:47 Demarcation between the word technology and digital. Chero Goswami 00:05:50 I mean, everything is called digital nowadays. Chero Goswami 00:05:52 So I am the chief information officer for the digital program. Chero Goswami 00:05:56 I co-leading with a very dear close colleague of mine. Chero Goswami 00:05:59 She's the chief ambulatory officer. Chero Goswami 00:06:02 Uh, so on the digital aspect, we laid out the strategy in the last 12 months. Chero Goswami 00:06:06 Now we are starting to implement some of the things on the digital front Chero Goswami 00:06:08 door side, um, artificial intelligence and robotics process automation. Chero Goswami 00:06:14 On the innovation side. Chero Goswami 00:06:15 It's interesting. Chero Goswami 00:06:15 A less known fact is UWO health also has an innovation arm or Chero Goswami 00:06:20 venture capital arm called isthmus. Chero Goswami 00:06:22 And we have a chief innovation officer over there. Chero Goswami 00:06:24 Who's also a very good partner and I sat on the board. Chero Goswami 00:06:27 So as long as the three partners work together among other Chero Goswami 00:06:30 things, um, things get done. Chero Goswami 00:06:32 It doesn't matter what the label of the, uh, Bill Russell 00:06:34 thesis areas for innovation. Chero Goswami 00:06:37 Um, part of it is actually. Chero Goswami 00:06:40 As simple as I, Jonathan Fritz, who probably everybody knows is a Chero Goswami 00:06:44 it, the chief innovation officer here, Jonathan and I, Joe innovation Chero Goswami 00:06:48 is different than invention. Chero Goswami 00:06:50 Right? Chero Goswami 00:06:50 Innovation has to solve a problem. Chero Goswami 00:06:51 Innovation has to make something better. Chero Goswami 00:06:54 So when we think of innovation, we always look at what's the Chero Goswami 00:06:57 problem we are trying to solve. Chero Goswami 00:06:58 So again, for the rest of the other industries, that may not Chero Goswami 00:07:01 be innovation, but we are finding ways where we are using data as a Chero Goswami 00:07:05 currency, we are using information. Chero Goswami 00:07:07 Bring down our AR days. Chero Goswami 00:07:09 We are our prior auth and pieces like that, where technology is Chero Goswami 00:07:12 now becoming more of a revenue generator than anything else. Chero Goswami 00:07:16 So that's one very simple case of innovation, uh, in the world of Chero Goswami 00:07:20 artificial intelligence, we are using imaging and non-structure data, you Chero Goswami 00:07:24 know, to start creating data models. Chero Goswami 00:07:25 So that's another case of innovation, anything Bill Russell 00:07:28 in the area of, uh, Chero Goswami 00:07:30 Starting to explore. Chero Goswami 00:07:32 Uh, I'm assuming you mean RPAs and robotics process automation. Chero Goswami 00:07:35 We're starting to explore by choice. Chero Goswami 00:07:37 We are respecting the, the, the workforce shortages and all the Chero Goswami 00:07:41 challenges in the clinical areas. Chero Goswami 00:07:43 So we're starting to look at nonclinical areas. Chero Goswami 00:07:45 Supply chain is one finance, HR recruitment, which everybody Chero Goswami 00:07:49 is struggling to recruit. Chero Goswami 00:07:50 Right now we are building an automated processes to reduce the turnaround times. Chero Goswami 00:07:54 So what's the Bill Russell 00:07:54 biggest difference between, um, BJC. Bill Russell 00:07:59 UWA. Bill Russell 00:07:59 I try to tell people it's like, you know, every academic medical Bill Russell 00:08:03 center is a little different. Bill Russell 00:08:04 Every IDN is a little different, every, I mean, what's, what's Bill Russell 00:08:08 the biggest difference that you Chero Goswami 00:08:08 found? Chero Goswami 00:08:09 Uh, on a humorous note, I would say is it's a lot more Chero Goswami 00:08:12 colder at UWL compared to BJC. Chero Goswami 00:08:15 Uh, other than that, I would say one big difference that I feel is, uh, Chero Goswami 00:08:19 what's typically known as the faculty practice plan it, most academic medical Chero Goswami 00:08:23 centers here, the faculty practice. Chero Goswami 00:08:25 It was very tightly integrated with the health system. Chero Goswami 00:08:27 So I have responsibilities for both the, the, the systems of the faculty practice Chero Goswami 00:08:31 plan rounds and, uh, the health system, Johns, which is very different than Chero Goswami 00:08:36 a BJC in wash WashU, other than epic. Chero Goswami 00:08:38 It's two totally different it shops. Chero Goswami 00:08:39 So that's a big, big difference. Chero Goswami 00:08:41 The Bill Russell 00:08:42 thing I found with academic medical centers, governance has Bill Russell 00:08:45 been wealth usually well thought out. Bill Russell 00:08:47 Um, in fact, I haven't even thought of, of an area, an academic Bill Russell 00:08:51 medical center I've gone into. Bill Russell 00:08:53 Hasn't really thought out there, their governance process really well. Bill Russell 00:08:55 Have you, have you found that to be so, Chero Goswami 00:08:57 um, I would say the governance structures in my Chero Goswami 00:09:00 experience are well-taught out of, but does it work all the time? Chero Goswami 00:09:03 Right? Chero Goswami 00:09:03 Tell me different things. Chero Goswami 00:09:04 And so I I'm on the philosophy that every governance structure should renew Chero Goswami 00:09:08 its license at the first of the year. Chero Goswami 00:09:10 Um, so with that in mind, we are actually recreating some of the Bill Russell 00:09:13 times Chero Goswami 00:09:14 that keep you from getting things done. Chero Goswami 00:09:15 Exactly, exactly. Chero Goswami 00:09:16 And so you use the thing though. Chero Goswami 00:09:18 I mean, think about Kobe and the decisions we made at two hours. Chero Goswami 00:09:22 Right. Chero Goswami 00:09:23 Why do we need another company to help us make those decisions? Bill Russell 00:09:26 So I'm trying to, I'm trying to find somebody who look, we Bill Russell 00:09:30 just, we all experienced code the same way we made decisions as quickly to Bill Russell 00:09:32 say by I'm trying to find somebody who said, yeah, look, we've looked at that Bill Russell 00:09:37 and said, we want to be like that more. Bill Russell 00:09:40 And they changed a bunch of their structure moving forward. Bill Russell 00:09:43 But what I'm finding is a lot of systems are just sort of slowly Bill Russell 00:09:46 leaning back into what they did. Chero Goswami 00:09:49 So I use a phrase. Chero Goswami 00:09:50 We at the crossroads of nostalgia and ambition, that's pretty much what it is. Chero Goswami 00:09:54 We want to be different, but it's our past that keeps pulling us back. Chero Goswami 00:09:58 And so one of my roles in being a new leader in the organization Chero Goswami 00:10:01 is to be the backstop room. Chero Goswami 00:10:03 Ask why, ask why the suspect tradition, but don't go into reverse gear. Chero Goswami 00:10:07 So, um, no that that's a challenging job, but I'll tell you for the Chero Goswami 00:10:11 right reasons when you show it works, people start believing in it. Chero Goswami 00:10:14 So, yeah. Bill Russell 00:10:15 Fantastic. Bill Russell 00:10:16 Sure. Chero Goswami 00:10:17 Thank you for your time. Chero Goswami 00:10:19 Thanks for having me over. Bill Russell 00:10:20 Don't forget to check back as we have more of these interviews Bill Russell 00:10:22 coming to you, that's all for today. Bill Russell 00:10:25 If you know of someone that might benefit from our channel, Bill Russell 00:10:26 please forward them a note. Bill Russell 00:10:27 They can subscribe on our website this week, health.com or wherever you listen Bill Russell 00:10:31 to podcasts, apple, Google, overcast, Spotify, Stitcher, you get the picture. Bill Russell 00:10:35 We are everywhere. Bill Russell 00:10:37 We want to thank our channel sponsors who are investing in our mission to Bill Russell 00:10:40 develop the next generation of health. Bill Russell 00:10:42 VMware Hill-Rom Starbridge advisors, McAfee and Aruba networks. Bill Russell 00:10:47 Thanks for listening.